Setting up wireless network in RV park

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Setting up wireless network in RV park

Postby Tekamba » Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:24 pm

I have a client who is wanting to setup a wireless network for his RV park tenants. I am trying to find the hardware to set this up for him and came across the Engenius line of long range wifi hardware. I'd like to find out if I am looking at the right equipment, and what other considerations I may need to factor in. Feel free to ask any questions that I may overlook.

The park is about 1250ft deep and 800 ft wide. The incoming cable will be located roughly in the front center of the park and the only other park supplied power is in the back left corner so repeaters would be a difficult task. He will consider putting some repeaters in, but would prefer to not need to. There are some trees scattered throughout the park, so complete line of sight is not likely unless we go over the trees, but then the various tenants might not be able to connect as easily.

So basically we would need to reach 400 feet in a side to side direction and 1250 feet straight back. According to my calculations the further point out should be about 1300-1400 feet. I was looking at the EOC2611P. Will that be capable of a range such as that or should I be looking at another device and/or hooking up additional antennas either on a roof or a pole? If so how high should I try to go with them? Should I attempt to get a 2nd device attached in the back corner (still discussing with the local cable company who will be providing the source, but don't think there will be the possibility of another incoming cable line back there so if anything I'd probably need to bridge a 2nd device.

Any suggestions welcome. Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.

Greg
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Re: Setting up wireless network in RV park

Postby heislerb » Sat Apr 07, 2012 5:25 am

Tekamba wrote:I have a client who is wanting to setup a wireless network for his RV park tenants. I am trying to find the hardware to set this up for him and came across the Engenius line of long range wifi hardware. I'd like to find out if I am looking at the right equipment, and what other considerations I may need to factor in. Feel free to ask any questions that I may overlook.

The park is about 1250ft deep and 800 ft wide. The incoming cable will be located roughly in the front center of the park and the only other park supplied power is in the back left corner so repeaters would be a difficult task. He will consider putting some repeaters in, but would prefer to not need to. There are some trees scattered throughout the park, so complete line of sight is not likely unless we go over the trees, but then the various tenants might not be able to connect as easily.

So basically we would need to reach 400 feet in a side to side direction and 1250 feet straight back. According to my calculations the further point out should be about 1300-1400 feet. I was looking at the EOC2611P. Will that be capable of a range such as that or should I be looking at another device and/or hooking up additional antennas either on a roof or a pole? If so how high should I try to go with them? Should I attempt to get a 2nd device attached in the back corner (still discussing with the local cable company who will be providing the source, but don't think there will be the possibility of another incoming cable line back there so if anything I'd probably need to bridge a 2nd device.
Once the EOC2611P on channel 4 is installed, I will have good internet coverage to about 90% of the park.

Any suggestions welcome. Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.

Greg


I have set up internet in a park that is about 1400 by 600, with very tall dense tress in about half the park and about a 20 foot elevation change.
How may users will you have?

We have the following;
Internet comes in via 3.5Ghz wireless panel (60 feet up) to about the center top third of the park. We have a captive portal gateway for login and password. Internet is sent to the back centeral park via a backhaul (two 5611P's 5Ghz 802.11A). Internet is sent to the front side of the park via a backhaul (two 5611P's 5Ghz 802.11A). The backhauls shoot down a roadway going from front to back and the 800 foot one is about 30 foot in the air and the 300 to 400 foot one is about 25 feet in the air.
The south area is about 500 feet by 600 feet and not so many trees. I have two 2611P's (channel 6 and 1) one on a 15dbi omni (36 feet in the air) and one on internal anteanna (25 feet in the air). The biggest problem with this area is the hidden node issue, weak signal, and multipath RF. To overcome this each user requires an ECO1650 mounted ouside of the trailer and near the roof. The EOC1650's are set up as a client bridge with statice IP. This is a year round section.
The central area has a 2611P on channel 11 with a 15 dbi omni mounted close to about 30 feet in the air. The front area is going to have a 2611P on channel 4 with a 20dbi 45 degree sector to cover this area that is blocked by a row of trees.
Next year we are going to add 802.11N 5Ghz AP's and try and reduce the 802.11g 2.4Ghz AP's to 3. We have had a number of issues with 2.4Ghz wirelless speakers, phones, and video senders. We are also having problems with other 2.4Ghz wifi devices such as routers and bell hubs. The routers in the south area of the park are all on channel 8 and 20Mhz bandwidth and in the north on channel 9. I cannot control the bell hubs and another close high power AP. The bell hubs are on auto channel select and settle only on 1, 6 and 11 and stay on the channel they boot up on. I have one hub close to my channel 6 AP in the south and it boots up on channel 6 most of the time. It is better to be on the same channel then an adjectent channel.
You need a spectrum analyzer to find the non wifi devices.
I am seeing more and more 2.4Ghz wifi devices on 40Mhz channel width and this takes up about 72% of the available bandwidth (it is a real problem).
The 15 dbi omni heights are a trade off you have to have them high enough to go over the trailers. They only have a five degree verticle 3db cutoff, so they shoot over the users. If you lower them then you loose range being blocked by trailers. The 15 dbi omni's were left over from the first attempt of a wifi install.
heislerb
 
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Re: Setting up wireless network in RV park

Postby Tekamba » Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:09 pm

There are a total of about 40 sites in the park that could hook up. Though I wouldn't expect 100% usage (although from what I understand he is planning to offer it to his tenants for free so the percentage will probably be pretty high).

Our service will be via cable with either 50MB down and 3 or 4MB up (depending on package he chooses). I'm planning on using either a DD-WRT or Tomato based router so we can better control user limits (he would like to leave it open for the time being and adjust if/when it becomes necessary). Though we will be blocking P2P types of apps as much as possible.

I went and reviewed the park again today, the cable company now informs me they can bring service to the building in the back corner of the lot where the office is located. From there I need to get it around the park which consists of 2 long drives up each side and a short (about 5 or 6 spaces long) drive across the back. There are some power poles through the park, though I'm sure placing anything on them will be virtually impossible due to restrictions though I've never looked into that aspect of it.

I'm thinking (since he isn't in a huge hurry and understands this isn't an exact science and will be affected by lots of factors, of picking up a single device (either a 2611 or 5611 from what I am reading though I am still not sure which would be better to start with). Taking it out to the location, and hooking it up then checking for coverage and what where we have spots to address.

Thoughts?

Greg
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Re: Setting up wireless network in RV park

Postby heislerb » Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:40 pm

The 5611P is an 802.11A device and not the right device for users with a computer wifi access. The 5611P is the correct device for your PtP links, but you will only have about 15 to 20Mbps data links. Two 5611Ps set up as WDS/bridge cannot be accessed by a user (mac access only). If you are going to move around 50Mbs you should be considering 802.11N 5Ghz devices.
The 2611P is a good AP will pass a maximum of 20Mbps of data and you could have 15 to 20 users on at a time. If all your users are from computer wifi then I would only consider 10 to 15 users on at a time.
I think bandwidth control is necessary when providing service to a large number of users.
I am no expert, but I learned a lot setting up our park.
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Re: Setting up wireless network in RV park

Postby Tekamba » Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:36 pm

So would you recommend I purchase a 2611P, take it out and set it up (maybe get an external antenna as well) and then check my coverage and determine additional hardware needs from there? I realize you are not an expert, just looking for advice from someone who has done this before so I can gain from their experience. The one thing I have learned is that every location is different and it seems until you start with something you won't know what you might encounter as far as interference.

After having walked the park again yesterday, I have a feeling that the 2611P may almost cover the area adequately. My biggest concern now is the features available if we use the router in that device, or if I should consider setting up a DD-WRT or Tomato based router. From what I am reading on the 2611P it seems to have quite a decent feature set.

Greg
Tekamba
 
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Re: Setting up wireless network in RV park

Postby heislerb » Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:37 pm

Tekamba wrote:So would you recommend I purchase a 2611P, take it out and set it up (maybe get an external antenna as well) and then check my coverage and determine additional hardware needs from there? I realize you are not an expert, just looking for advice from someone who has done this before so I can gain from their experience. The one thing I have learned is that every location is different and it seems until you start with something you won't know what you might encounter as far as interference.

After having walked the park again yesterday, I have a feeling that the 2611P may almost cover the area adequately. My biggest concern now is the features available if we use the router in that device, or if I should consider setting up a DD-WRT or Tomato based router. From what I am reading on the 2611P it seems to have quite a decent feature set.

Greg


Hi Greg;

Yes, purchase 2611P and an external antenna to start. I cannot tell you what antenna. I would also have to see the campground. Remember your AP will be transmitting maybe 4 Watts and the computers will be transmitting maybe 50 miliwatts. For the best modulation and decoding each end has to receive a minumin of 25 db SNR (signal to noise ratio).

I would not use the 2611P for anythng but an AP. Take a look at Valuepoint NC3560. It is a gateway captive portal with all kinds of bells and whistles. We don't have one yet, but it is in the very very near furture. If it is too much or too much dollars, then I would stick to your idea of DD-WRT or Tomato based router (this is not for me). We presently have a Dlink DSA-3200 gateway that needs upgrading.

If you what good reference material and what to learn more, go to the link below and download anything that has Xirrus in brackets.
http://66.14.166.45/downloads.html

I will be glad to answer any question I can.

Bob
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Re: Setting up wireless network in RV park

Postby Tekamba » Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:56 pm

Thank you, I've sent an email to Engenius as I can't seem to find many antenna's on their website. Once I determine what antenna I think I am going to place the order and just start testing and making adjustments. While it will be more time consuming, I think it will be much more cost effective for my client than just purchasing a bunch of hardware to guarantee coverage. I'm thinking we start minimal and add from there as weaknesses are discovered.

There is a wealth of knowledge all around that site. Thank you for much for the link.

Greg
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